From: owner-ytriples-l-digest To: ytriples-l-digest Subject: ytriples-l-digest V1 #182 Reply-To: ytriples-l Errors-To: owner-ytriples-l-digest Precedence: bulk ytriples-l-digest Monday, 21 July 1997 Volume 01 : Number 182 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Munson Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:29:03 -0700 Subject: Re: hello there Thomas Malmevik wrote: > > new to the list.....have 2 yamaha's......1 is a 1977 XS750 2D thats been > bored out to 1003cc......in the middle of repainting it now......bought it > a few months ago from a guy who had it sitting for over a year....rebuilt > the fuel valves......flushed and cleaned the gas tank....plugs , oil > etc........hope to have it back on the road by the end of august.... > hope it will be more fun than my seca....we'll see *8-}.....if i > encounter more problems getting it on the road you can be sure ill ask > about it here....glad to find this list.......keep it up in the wind > > ****************************************** > *.........ride free or die...............* > *.....the Mumbles...........*8-}.........* > *82 650 seca................daily cruiser* > *77 XS750 2d....bored(1000cc)project bike****************************** > *96 Nash 27-5l........93 F350 tow and fun* Radiological Technologist * > *.....life member....good sam club.......* Computed Imaging Specialist* > *just an old longhaired hippie freak, man* Lead Technologist CT/Trauma* > *...riding and camping clean and sober...* Harborview Medical Center * > *.......we can never do alone............* Seattle Washington USA * > *.......what we can do together..........****************************** > ****************************************** > > ------------ > This message is copyright: Thomas Malmevik , > and the content is their responsibility. > The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider > assume no responsibility for the content of messages. > === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === Thomas, Welcome! From the Great Rusty North huh? Spent the first 25 years of my life there...Congratulations on your good fortune! Bored to 1003cc?!? Wow! Any worries about overheating or cylinder wall distortion? I'm planning on going through my motor this winter (as much of one as we get down here...God I love rubbing that in ;-D) and was considering punching it out a bit. I'd love your input. Jeff - ------------ This message is copyright: Jeff Munson , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: "John B. O'Donnell" Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 13:01:31 -0700 Subject: Re: WINDJAMMER Kurt Krueger wrote: > > I hate to ask for this request as I love my triple the way it is but I > am looking for a windjammer that will fit the 750 special as I just > moved and will be commuting about 30 miles to work and want a little > more weather protection and my F250 is getting too expensive to drive > everyday. Is there a company that makes these that will fit? I have a Windjammer on my 750 that came with it. When I tried to find a right turn signal lens I was told that the company is out of business. > Are they > hard to install? What happens to performance? Anyone have any input > they can offer. I have been using the small windshield for a while but > being 6'5" it just doesn't cover me very well. Sorry, can'rt help with these questions. -- jbod > > kurt, > Vancouver, WA. > > ------------ > This message is copyright: Kurt Krueger , > and the content is their responsibility. > The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider > assume no responsibility for the content of messages. > === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === - ------------ This message is copyright: "John B. O'Donnell" , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Rene Chaddock Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:35:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Big ends&clutches At 01:18 AM 7/20/97 -0700, you wrote: >Rene Chaddock wrote: > >> Anybody know how they manage to get hypoid gear oil a flourescent yellow? > > >Hmmmm,strange.I've noticed if you look through it while your pouring >it(most oils)they look sort of green.The two-stroke oil in the Git looks >emerald green in the reflected light in the little window. >Something to do with the way it reflects light I suppose. this stuff is actually purposefully coloured, so that it is easier to see. At least, thats why I think its flourescent yellow. Easy to see it dripping down the cas eor leaking, anyway. Just seemed pretty odd to me. Wasn't the smelly gross black colour I originally drained out of the middle gear case (there was also a LOT os sediment on the sides of the middle gear case too (inside, of course). Took solvent and time to get it off - -Rene - ------------ This message is copyright: Rene Chaddock , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Chris Sansom Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:34:10 +0930 Subject: Re-synthetic oils 'n stuff Morning chaps, 4 degrees in Melbourne this morning ! Just a thought on synthetic oils and clutch slippage.Doesn't synthetic oil contain friction modifiers? Not good for a friction based 'wet' clutch arrangement no? Also, can anyone help on the dimensions of the middle gear case and final gear case dipsticks? Enough of this work, I'm off around the hills, solved the 'keeping the battery fresh' problem; ride the bloody thing! - ------------ This message is copyright: Chris Sansom , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Thomas Liggin Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: More oil discussion Nice read... you said... (Slick 50,etc.), by the time they factor in the cost of the venom, are spending more per quart than if they would have put in the good synthetic in the first place (and no Teflon particles floating around in the crankcase, either!) I am part of the XS11 list and we had discussions on this for quite some time. I'm a Mobil 1 convert and my bike does ride a little smoother (less friction either in the bike or in my head) And as the the Teflon Particles (sounds like Star Trek) the particles are so small that in use they really aren't as bad as "prolonged use" build up. Now.. if I can only get a free tire. TomTom Liggin email:tslstu@westga.edu 1981 XS1100H / 1977 XS750D "Tripoli" XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXS O._ ___ _.O SXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSX / \(O|O)/ \ XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS o/\___/\o SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSX \_____/ XSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS /\___/\ SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSX O-\[___]/-O XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS |[BAD]| SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS =|'...'|= SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSX ./>\<.(o) XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXS \ SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXS >\< XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXSX <\> XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XS750D XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS TRIPLE Ill Native Enterprises Carrollton,GA - ------------ This message is copyright: Thomas Liggin , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Thomas Liggin Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Big ends-why? Now for a less serious topic: Clutch cable failure. Isn't it fun to ride home without benefit of a clutch? :) This happened to me once while I still lived about 15 miles in the deep woods. I had a very nice 3rd gear ride home.. TomTom Liggin email:tslstu@westga.edu 1981 XS1100H / 1977 XS750D "Tripoli" XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXS O._ ___ _.O SXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSX / \(O|O)/ \ XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS o/\___/\o SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSX \_____/ XSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS /\___/\ SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSX O-\[___]/-O XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS |[BAD]| SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS =|'...'|= SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSX ./>\<.(o) XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXS \ SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXS >\< XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXSX <\> XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XS750D XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS TRIPLE Ill Native Enterprises Carrollton,GA - ------------ This message is copyright: Thomas Liggin , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Thomas Liggin Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: hello there Hey Thomas... I'm Thomas too... where did you get this bike from??? .1 is a 1977 XS750 2D thats been bored out to 1003cc or just where did he get the bore out kit for it? and also.. you never told us the other directly... but I assumed it was the Seca II 650. Mine is an xs11H called Meatwagon. TomTom Liggin email:tslstu@westga.edu 1981 XS1100H / 1977 XS750D "Tripoli" XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXS O._ ___ _.O SXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSX / \(O|O)/ \ XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS o/\___/\o SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSX \_____/ XSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS /\___/\ SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSX O-\[___]/-O XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS |[BAD]| SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS =|'...'|= SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSX ./>\<.(o) XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXS \ SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXS >\< XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXSX <\> XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XS750D XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS TRIPLE Ill Native Enterprises Carrollton,GA - ------------ This message is copyright: Thomas Liggin , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: JED Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:00:44 -0700 Subject: Re: Re-synthetic oils 'n stuff Chris Sansom wrote: > > Morning chaps, 4 degrees in Melbourne this morning ! > Enough of this work, I'm off around the hills, solved the 'keeping the > battery fresh' problem; ride the bloody thing! Yee ha! It was 4 deg C in Ipswich again last night and again now. Saw the Story Bridge Concours today,It was brilliant.There was a stand from the Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club.I'm thinking of joining. They had a TX 750 there!I didn't think there were any left.I read that they were a disaster,but "they"also reckon that about our triples! It's amazing what oil changes do for the life of your bike. As far as keeping the battery charged,400 K's a week going to work does the job. Ride free,JED. - ------------ This message is copyright: JED , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: JED Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:13:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Big ends&clutches Rene Chaddock wrote: > > this stuff is actually purposefully coloured, so that it is easier to see. > At least, thats why I think its flourescent yellow. Easy to see it dripping > down the cas eor leaking, anyway. Just seemed pretty odd to me. Wasn't the > smelly gross black colour I originally drained out of the middle gear case > (there was also a LOT os sediment on the sides of the middle gear case too > (inside, of course). Took solvent and time to get it off > > -Rene I know what you mean about the gross black stuff.I doubt the oil in mine had ever been changed. There was a beard on the drain plug!(magnetic-good idea,huh?) I change them (mid. and final)every 10,000K's. I don't get any metallic stuff from the final drive,but I still get a bit out of the middle gear case.At least the oil comes out clean now. Also,don't know if any of you have heard of this,but after a great many miles(of running without grease)the splines where the back wheel goes in the final drive will wear right through! Mine are half way through and were rusty when I first got a new back tyre on it.I keep them greased and don't expect to have any trouble. As for yellow oil,you used to be able to get in Australia this "emerald oil".It was dyed emerald green(strange coincidence!)It was full synthetic,I think. Don't know if there was any real purpose for it. Tomorrow,JED. - ------------ This message is copyright: JED , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Doug Kosheluk Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:36:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: WINDJAMMER If you are doing any commuting or long distance riding, a fairing is great. I just replaced my fairing with the one off my parts bike because the old one had developed some cracks. If anyone is handy with repairing cracks in fairings they can have my old one cheap, cheap, cheap. The fairing offers great weather protection. You can ride in much colder weather and not feel the chill. They offer a quieter ride, less fatiguing, do not affect performance or gas mileage. And, all the bugs hit the fairing, not the rider. On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Kurt Krueger wrote: > I hate to ask for this request as I love my triple the way it is but I > am looking for a windjammer that will fit the 750 special as I just > moved and will be commuting about 30 miles to work and want a little > more weather protection and my F250 is getting too expensive to drive > everyday. Is there a company that makes these that will fit? Are they > hard to install? What happens to performance? Anyone have any input > they can offer. I have been using the small windshield for a while but > being 6'5" it just doesn't cover me very well. > > kurt, > Vancouver, WA. > > ------------ > This message is copyright: Kurt Krueger , > and the content is their responsibility. > The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider > assume no responsibility for the content of messages. > === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === > - ------------ This message is copyright: Doug Kosheluk , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: mxtplk Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:20:15 -0700 Subject: Re: WINDJAMMER Kurt Krueger wrote: > > I hate to ask for this request as I love my triple the way it is but I > am looking for a windjammer that will fit the 750 special as I just > moved and will be commuting about 30 miles to work and want a little > more weather protection and my F250 is getting too expensive to drive > everyday. Is there a company that makes these that will fit? Are they > hard to install? What happens to performance? Anyone have any input > they can offer. I have been using the small windshield for a while but > being 6'5" it just doesn't cover me very well. > > kurt, > Vancouver, WA. > > ------------ > This message is copyright: Kurt Krueger , > and the content is their responsibility. > The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider > assume no responsibility for the content of messages. > === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === J.C. Whitney used to sell a very large windshield (no longer offered) that had a more angular appearance than the "plexifairing" style thing they carry now ($100). It had skirts that came down alongside the front fork quite a way, and offered excellent wind and water protection. Besides which, it sold for a mere $65. It's all I've ever used on the 850. I'm 6'3", and with the fairing set as far down over the headlight as possible, I still can't see over the top of the windshield without sitting up real straight. I've also got an old third-hand Windjammer (seen much better days) that I want to eventually put on the Special. It's what Yamaha used as part of the "Touring" package they once sold on some 850's (bleeve it was the "LG" model). The complete fairing itself is standard - it's the mounting bracket that's made to fit a specific bike (I don't know if brackets made for the XS1100 would fit). If you can get a bracket to fit the 750/850, then ANY windjammer ought to work. See if you can find a windjammer with the large integrated turn signals (later model) - they really look nice. Mine takes the old stalk-mounted signals (ugh!). Herb - ------------ This message is copyright: mxtplk , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Tom Hunt Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:59:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: WINDJAMMER On Sun, 20 Jul 1997, Doug Kosheluk wrote: > If you are doing any commuting or long distance riding, a fairing is > great. I just replaced my fairing with the one off my parts bike because > the old one had developed some cracks. If anyone is handy with repairing > cracks in fairings they can have my old one cheap, cheap, cheap. The > fairing offers great weather protection. You can ride in much colder > weather and not feel the chill. They offer a quieter ride, less > fatiguing, do not affect performance or gas mileage. And, all the bugs > hit the fairing, not the rider. So . . . what do you classify as "cheap, cheap, cheap"?? - ------------------------------------------- Tom Hunt hunt@eagle.cc.ukans.edu Reply To: hunt@ukans.edu Home Page: http://eagle.cc.ukans.edu/~hunt - ------------------------------------------- - ------------ This message is copyright: Tom Hunt , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Thomas Liggin Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: "El diablo esta en mi pantalones." just wanted to share this with you all. My "Instant Win: Look under the Cap" Gatorade cap says "Life's a sport: please play again!" TomTom Liggin email:tslstu@westga.edu 1981 XS1100H / 1977 XS750D "Tripoli" XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXS O._ ___ _.O SXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSX / \(O|O)/ \ XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS o/\___/\o SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSX \_____/ XSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS /\___/\ SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSX O-\[___]/-O XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS |[BAD]| SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXS =|'...'|= SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSX ./>\<.(o) XSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXS \ SXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXS >\< XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XSXSXSXSXSXSXSX <\> XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS XS750D XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS TRIPLE Ill Native Enterprises Carrollton,GA - ------------ This message is copyright: Thomas Liggin , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Jeff Munson Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:41:19 -0700 Subject: Re: "El diablo esta en mi pantalones." Thomas Liggin wrote: > > just wanted to share this with you all. My "Instant Win: Look under the > Cap" Gatorade cap says "Life's a sport: please play again!" > > TomTom Liggin email:tslstu@westga.edu > 1981 XS1100H / 1977 XS750D "Tripoli" > > XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXS O._ ___ _.O SXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSX / \(O|O)/ \ XSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXS o/\___/\o SXSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXSX \_____/ XSXSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXS /\___/\ SXSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSX O-\[___]/-O XSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXS |[BAD]| SXSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXS =|'...'|= SXSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXSX ./>\<.(o) XSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXSXS \ SXSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXSXS >\< XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS > XSXSXSXSXSXSXSX <\> XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS > XS750D XSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXSXS TRIPLE > > Ill Native Enterprises Carrollton,GA > > ------------ > This message is copyright: Thomas Liggin , > and the content is their responsibility. > The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider > assume no responsibility for the content of messages. > === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === Ummm...ooooookaaaaaay...thanks for sharing, Tom. ;-D - ------------ This message is copyright: Jeff Munson , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Michael Pearce Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: More oil discussion Here, here. I'm glad there are some quantitative studies of this issue, because there is far too much "X is better than Y because Z", where Z is some pseudoscientific claim or advertising copy. I'm pretty skeptical, and a cynic also, so I'm always wary of these claims. This discussion has gone on in the Mopar list for a while, too. Here's my take on the topic. Let's assume that impuritis (I guess little carbon particles plus metal chips) build up twice as fast in regular oil as in synthetics. So the "level of impurities" looks like a sawtooth function, starting at some level, building linearly, and dropping back when you change your oil. So if you change your oil twice as often with regular oil, you will get the same amount of protection as you would with synthetics. But you'll spend half as much money ($1.50 vs $6.00). Ok, I'm ignoring the extra time for oil changes, and assumed that the cooling abilities are the same, but I think reasoning is sound. From another point of view, lets assume that a synthetic gives you 20% more wear protection. And it's a big jump, but say this translates to 10% more engine life. So your engine lasts 55k miles/kilometers instead of 50k. Then you hav to do a rebuild earlier with organics than with synthetics. But you would have rebuilt anyway, so all you've done is bought time. Or you scrap it and buy a new one. In which case you'd have to go through 10? bikes before you "save" a new bike if you use synthetics in all your bikes. And how many people wear out just the engine in 10 bikes? Not many, unless their Harleys. Thats enought of my oil philosophy. Now I need to read some actual research from real data to see how faulty my reasoning is. Mike. Michael Pearce PO Box 60505 atomic@best.com Palo Alto, CA 94306 (415) 522-1164 http://www.best.com/~atomic - ------------ This message is copyright: Michael Pearce , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ From: Chris Sansom Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:44:56 +0930 Subject: Sunday follies Here's a pleasant way to spend a Sunday afternoon, when you can't remember your last oil change and decide to do it just before a nice ride on an uncommonly nice winter's day; try rounding off the bolt that holds on the filter housing! After a succession of larger vice-grips to no avail I decided on welding on a larger nut over the offending bolt. Groovy, worked well and you only have to lie on your back with the electrode inches from your face and weld upside-down! Alls well that ends well and I promise to be more vigilant with my changes from now on! - ------------ This message is copyright: Chris Sansom , and the content is their responsibility. The owners/operators of basenji.com and their Internet provider assume no responsibility for the content of messages. === Email majordomo@basenji.com with "help" as the message for more info === ------------------------------ End of ytriples-l-digest V1 #182 ********************************